Posts by Cold Steel

1

Two witness rule using the other 2 bibles on jw.org

by pleaseresearch in

so i was thinking, now jw.org uses two other bible translations/versions on their website.. can we not use the two witness rule regarding certain doctrines.

for example john 1:1 this is absolutely amazing to me that they would have two bibles for jesus being god.

but only one bible, their own translation in support of jesus being a god.

Cold Steel

One has to understand what the author had in mind, and the Trinity is a difficult doctrine to deal with. In Isaiah, God says He knows of no other gods besides Him. Yet in the New Testament, Jesus is praying to the Father (1+1=2). And in Genesis 1 and Psalms 110, there seem to be gods (elohim) speaking to each other ("man has become as one of us" and "Sit thou at my right hand until I make thy enemies thy footstool.").

It is a conundrum. So they try to interpret the doctrine so they can translate the scripture. They don't believe Jesus is Jehovah, so they try to make him "a god."

But in the New Testament, Christ is given "all power" and allows himself to be worshiped (Matthew 28:18). In the Old Testament, YAHVH is described as being the "First And The Last." (Isa. 41:4; 44:6; 48:12), but in the New Testament, it's Jesus who is the "First and the Last" (Rev. 1:8; 16-18; 22:12-13, 20).

In the Old Testament, YHVH comes personally to the earth with fire (Isa. 66:15), but in 2 Thess. 1:7-8, it's Jesus who comes with fire. There are other scriptures referring to both as the Shepherd, King of Kings, Judge of mankind, Savior and Creator. If one didn't know better, they could be taken as a single entity!

So the brass at JWHQ have a big problem and the only way they can fix it is to creatively interpret the scriptures. Jesus tells the criminal on the cross, "Today shalt thou be with me in Paradise." But they can't interpret it that way, so he says, "I'm tellin' you today, you will be with me in Paradise!"

So once they begin fudging one, they have to keep doing it. The result is a translation that's a laughing stock. But other churches do it to a lesser extent; it's just that there's almost zero scholarship when it comes to the JW translations. And it makes it tough trying to discuss religious topics with JWs because some of their translations are so outlandish. But it's tough to bring in the law of witnesses here unless you use other translations as witnesses. Or scholars.

Is that what you mean?

24

What changes would JW.org need to make to become a normal Christian denomination.

by UnshackleTheChains in

i am interested in getting people's thoughts on this.

on average 40 thousand people leave the organisation yearly for one reason or another.

the experiences all over the media are proof of this.

Cold Steel

Island Man »
Stop the practice of shunning.

You mean...and start acting like Christians? That would be a novel approach! Shunning, though, is how they keep a lot of people in the church! How many times have we heard, even on this forum, fade -- don't leave? Fading helps avoid the stigma of being identified and shunned by one's family and friends. It's the single most repulsive thing about these "humble, Bible-believing Christians."

24

What changes would JW.org need to make to become a normal Christian denomination.

by UnshackleTheChains in

i am interested in getting people's thoughts on this.

on average 40 thousand people leave the organisation yearly for one reason or another.

the experiences all over the media are proof of this.

Cold Steel

First the Governing Body would have to relinquish their blatantly unrighteous dominion. The ancient apostles never attempted to exert that much control. They tended to teach people correct principles and let them govern themselves. In a perfect society, there would be no reason for laws. That's why it's ridiculous to think there would be a need for a heavenly ruling class to lord it up over the Earth Dwellers. What are they going to do, have mandatory meetings on Paradise Earth?

Freedom in discussing the Bible and its meaning rather than forced interpretations, attending other churches -- any relinquishing of power, intimidation and force. Leave people alone and let people live their lives and be happy.

That's what I'd recommend.

59

Evolutionist on their deathbed.

by Nimble duck in

i would really like to read the thoughts of an evolutionist as they lie on their deathbed.

their "honest to nogod" thoughts.

their terrors.

Cold Steel

DeeGee » Has anyone been back from the dead and personally told you about their conversation with God, what he/she said to God and vice versa, and provided you with the details of what the afterlife is like?

That's kind of the whole question about religion, isn't it? And how we face our own demise is central to it all. The JWs most also experience some apprehension when they die as well, because they, too, face a void...a cessation of existence. If there really is a soul sleep, a person will literally cease to exist, never to exist again. Jehovah may reconstruct someone, reconstruct their memories -- the person may even look the same and feel the same -- but all they can expect to be is a carbon copy. Jehovah could crank out two more of them without breaking a sweat! But none would be the same exact person and all three would swear they were the originals (and in a sense they'd all be right...and wrong).

Intelligence would have to be constant to be eternal. God could take all your original particles and recreate you bit by bit, atom by atom, and you still would be only a copy.

The entire idea behind religion is revelation. People don't all experience life after life revelations, nor do they all see God. But it's far too simplified to say that all prophets are con men and that all those who believe them are fools. Con men aren't usually willing to die for their cons and many religionists have been shown to be some of the most brilliant thinkers and writers in world history.

Whether created or the products of generations of evolution, man has some internal need for religion. And many early prophets weren't one-man bands. They had witnesses. Moses had a meal prepared for seventy elders, all of which "saw the God of Israel." So whether the account is true or false, the ancient God of the Hebrews wasn't hidden as many other gods of the world. So it's not a reach to ask whether non-believers might have doubts on their deathbeds, a time when they have to face their own mortality.

19

Jehovah Banned in Singapore

by EverApostate in

singapore is a tiny, beautiful and economically powerful country in se asia.

all religions are allowed there except the jehaovah's witnesses and another christian denomination.

jws are banned because they don’t serve the military and all singapore citizens are required to serve in the military for a while.. the jws are banned in singapore since 1972. .

Cold Steel

EverApostate » Jehovah being such a powerful GOD, (As we all once believed), can't remove the ban in Singapore for his most important preaching work. If this JW religion is all real, Cant Jah lift the ban in Singapore in no time? ... There is a huge Hindu temple in Singapore, dedicated to Lord Muruga.... I can only conclude that Jehovah is less powerful than Muruga, assuming both GODs are real.

Ah, yes, but assumptions are tricky things. First, even if one assumes that Jehovah is the one lording it up over that Brooklyn publishing company, one must also discount all the other Christian religions and sects who worship Jehovah more intelligently than the Brooklyn religion.

Ever since Rome fell (and Jerusalem before it), Christians and Jews have attempted to guage Yahweh's power over the other gods of mankind by which cities rise or fall or what temple or church was destroyed. Augustine wrote his City of God trying to explain why, if Rome was God's city, that He let it fall, and God's people with it.

The same thing happened with the first destruction of Jerusalem circa 600 BC and the second destruction in the first century AD. Jesus told the Jews in his day that they relied too heavily on the temple and the city of David, but that the Lord was going to give it all up because of the wickedness of the people. In the end times, the Lord would set his hand again to recover his people (Isaiah 11), but not because of their righteousness, but to prepare them for the return of Christ (see Ezekiel 38-39, Rev. 11). In fact, just before that return, John called Jerusalem the spiritual equivalent of Sodom and Egypt.

The point is, the survival or destruction of cities, temples or the success or failure of a people, their missionary efforts -- it's pretty much irrelevant to the existence or power of God. It's often been used as a criterion by the ancients, but it's fairly meaningless, since there are many Christian worshippers of Jehovah in Singapore who aren't and have never been Jehovah's Witnesses. So you can't come up with a viable argument that the JWs can't come back with from scripture.

BTW, I'd love to visit Singapore. They have some draconian laws there, but that's how they keep things clean and sparkling. We could use a little of that here. They know how to deal with crime, littering and vagrancy.

P.S. -- I only hope the universe isn't ruled by cows. If so, I've eaten far too many gods (medium rare) to escape Hell.

15

No go field service days

by Steel in

it's canada day today and not just any canada day, it's canada's 150 birthday.

for some strange reason i was actually able to reason with my wife day and she agreed with me.

field service on a special day wouldn't be appropriate.

Cold Steel

Yes, but if you don't go out on a patriotic day, aren't you, in effect, honoring that day over Jehovah? I mean, what if Armageddon came on that day? He comes in the clouds on Canada's 150th anniversary, and you guys are out getting the breakfast special at Denny's!

That's okay. Just tell them you celebrated it "invisibly."

26

To kill or not to kill

by Chook in

how many jws would kill a violent rapist in there home or protect their family with lethal means .

the one thing i love about the usa is the right to defend oneself with lethal force in their own home.

it's not that i want to kill someone but better them dead than my children..

Cold Steel

Dagon » I don't agree with the idea of brandishing a gun to scare off an intruder. If they are in my home bag em. The old saying I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

The idea isn't to kill someone, but to deter someone. There's a moral dimension to self defense. A gun should not simply be brandished as a means of impressing a bad guy -- that's a good way to be killed or seriously hurt. Either an intruder is in your house to hurt you or take what you have. I talked to an ex-burglar one time who became a security expert. He was in a house he thought was deserted one night and he was putting things in a black bag -- whatever he could grab. "I thought I was alone," he said. "(If I wanted to meet people I woulda been a mugger.) Anyway, I was shoving stuff into this bag when I heard the most frightening sound I'd ever heard. It was a metallic, yet familiar sound. Then it struck me what it was -- it was the sound of a semi-automatic pistol being racked back and released!"

The ex-burglar said it was the last sound he ever heard as a burglar. "I was so scared I left my bag, my tools, everything, and I took off in the straightest direction outta there that was open to me!" His tools were specialized, he said, and not cheap. But he left everything behind and never burgaled another home. "That one sound was enough to turn my life around," he said.

This .357 Ruger Speed-Six is one of the sweetest self defense guns out there. It shoots both .357 and .38 Specials.. I use .38s for the home, but .357s for hiking, camping or cross country travel by car. It's stopping power is legendary.

26

To kill or not to kill

by Chook in

how many jws would kill a violent rapist in there home or protect their family with lethal means .

the one thing i love about the usa is the right to defend oneself with lethal force in their own home.

it's not that i want to kill someone but better them dead than my children..

Cold Steel

In most cases a homeowner doesn't have to shoot an intruder. Just producing a gun is enough to hold the guy for police. A criminal's family also can sue for wrongful death if one isn't careful. When I received my first instruction back in the 80s, my instructor told me to never shoot anyone in the dark. Turn on the lights and take cover behind a bed or a desk. If an intruder has a knife, and you have time to issue a verbal command, it's probably a good idea to do so. But if they have a gun, you're under no obligation to warn. Shoot them until they're no longer a threat.

The worse thing you can do is to try to talk to someone with a gun. Experience has shown you can't shoot and talk at the same time. And cops have recently learned that a determined man with a knife can reach someone armed with a gun and carve them up before being stopped (20 feet is the distance they've determined for cops).

I live in a horribly anti-gun state, but I just won't go into a national park unless I'm armed, legally or otherwise. When I was younger, I worked for the NRA and I've interviewed park rangers, people attacked by bears -- but one of the most interesting guys I talked to was literally terrorized by a man who threatened his family. He'd shoot into the guy's house into lit rooms and the police could never prove it was him. One night the bad guy broke into this fellow's house. In the firefight that ensued, he was forced into the back yard and hid behind a refrigerator that was under repair.

"I had a speedloader loaded with armor-piercing ammo," he said, "and I fired four shots at the refrigerator. I was about to shoot again when the guy just fell dead sideways." When I asked where he'd gotten the ammo, he said he made it from a steel dow and cut it in pieces and reloaded it. He was completely exonerated, but in this case his primary fear was that the guy would live to come back and harm his family. "He wanted to harm me by killing my wife or kids, and there was clearly something wrong with the guy, but I didn't care -- he had it in for my family." He had them trained to hit the floor when they heard shots fired.

2

Cartoon showing the WT changes

by careful in

sorry if it's a repost but it just seemed so funny i had to share it.. .

Cold Steel

105

Subliminal images - why and who are the individuals behind it?

by UnshackleTheChains in

i remember about 5 years ago reading on another site about subliminal images in wt literature.

i honestly thought it a load of bs until i checked out one glaringly obvious image of a creepy skull in clouds within the knowledge book.

i was shocked and even showed my wife at the time who thought it was creepy.. so my question is why?

Cold Steel

The question of who's responsible goes hand-in-hand with why. And even more curiouser is what does the Governing Body do about it? Once these subliminals are discovered, it's not like them to just let the matter slide without doing anything about it. To them it would represent a loss of control or at least it would be an aspect over which they had no control, and that might...trouble them.

It's one thing to put in smiley faces, quite another demonic heads and twisted claws. I'm sure they'll be interesting topics of discussion on Paradise Earth in the Ministry of Theocratic Affairs, Historic Division. They could cover it up, but why bother? Everything will be perfect...delightful, in fact.

Or will they cover it up out of habit? After all, why complicate things on Paradise Earth? The last thing Theocratic Ministry or the Council of the 144,000 need is another rebellion on their hands!